68. Can Stress Affect Fertility? The Science of Surrender & Pregnancy | Dr. Erica Bove

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: Today's conversation lives at the intersection of science, fertility, stress, physiology, and intuition, and what I consider a mystical part of medicine that many of us don't really touch. So today we're talking with a board certified OBGYN who's also a fertility specialist. Dr. Erica Bove. We're going to dive deep into the science, evidence-based medicine, and really a lot of incredible advances in reproductive technology, as well as so many other things that can influence your journey when you are going through the journey of fertility. Welcome to The Authentic Path. I'm your host, Dr. Vanessa Calderon, Harvard-trained physician and healer. I integrate science and ancestral wisdom to support you in creating the success you desire in all areas of your life. I'm so glad you're here. Let's get started. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to The Authentic Path. So happy to have you all here. Now there's this moment in fertility medicine that almost every reproductive entrogynologist maybe has witnessed and a few of them maybe talk about. It's this experience where women are trying so hard to conceive over and over again. They're very, maybe even stressed out, feel like they're trying everything and nothing is happening. And then all of a sudden they stop trying. They stop trying. Maybe they go on vacation. Maybe something else happens in their life. Maybe they have a release in therapy or something with their therapist. And then they report getting pregnant. And I'll tell you just from personal experience, that's what happened to me. When I was trying to conceive with my second kid, we had three miscarriages. It was very painful, very sad. And there was a lot of grief because I thought something was wrong with me, something that I thought I was broken. And what I have come to understand and what the data actually supports is that there is something behind this concept of what happens when a woman lets go, what happens when a woman surrenders. And there's a lot of data behind this. In fact, in 1997, there was a Harvard trained psychologist named Dr. Ellis Domer, who started this program at one of the Harvard hospitals to teach women how to relax and how to meditate, how to cognitively restructure their brain. when they were trying to get pregnant. And what she found was over 55 % of the women that went through her program versus 20 % of the control group were actually able to get pregnant and conceive. And there's been many studies since then that have been published that you can go out and find if you search on PubMed, which is where we keep all of our scientific studies. And it's really powerful to see. And the reason why I share all that with you. is because my guest today, Dr. Erica Bove is a board certified OBGYN and the founder of Love and Science Fertility. She's a third generation physician and comes from actually lineage of OBGYNs, folks that have brought in lives into this world. Her grandfather was also an OBGYN and her father was also a surgeon. And Erica is one of the very few people that I know who can hold both ends of this conversation where she can to you deeply about the science and the technology and everything you need to know about hormones and follicle counts and all of those types of things. But she can also talk to you about the other side. She can hold your hand when you're afraid, when you're scared. And she can tell you how she has felt the presence of her grandfather in the operating room with her or in the OR when she's had tough cases. So the conversation we're going to have today really is a conversation about both. It's about both the science but also everything else that we miss when we only look at the science. So dear friend Erica, welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Erica Bove: Thanks Dr. Vanessa, it's so wonderful to be here.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: I'm curious if there's anything else you want to say to sort of introduce yourself before we jump in.

Dr. Erica Bove: I think I would say that I went to medical school to be a doctor. I think that my identity was sort of even in the broader sense a healer. And that's something that I've connected with in the last few years that being a doctor is a part of being a healer. But I truly believe that to embrace that healer identity necessitates bringing in intuition. It necessitates bringing in ancestral wisdom and also helping my patients and my clients to do the same because when we can do that, we can access such a broader dimension. of what's actually happening and there's so many resources available to us that come to us when we're open to that. So that's what I would share is yes, Western medicine is really helpful and we need all the research, we know the science, but for me personally to be in my identity as a healer, we need to welcome all of it.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: That's really beautiful. Let's talk a little more about that because I will tell you, you know this about me that I am, you know, trained, Western medicine trained physician, graduated from Harvard, tons of science in my background. And I'm a huge nerd when it comes to the data and the science. And I also was raised by mystics and indigenous healers and grew up with ancestral healers in my lineage. And so I sort of walk both of those lines. I know for a long part of my history, it was really uncomfortable for me to use the word healer. I called myself a doctor because I felt like that gave me some sort of credibility, but it wasn't until I did that whole push away where I came from and find my own identity to fully come back full circle and embrace all of the wisdom that comes from my ancestry and now fully see myself, of course I'm a healer. Of course that's what we do. But I'm curious for you, you use the word healer now. Tell me your journey and what it took for you to go from Western doctor OBGYN now to name and call yourself a healer.

Dr. Erica Bove: I remember reading The Wounded Healer when I was in college. think I've always sort of known deep down that that was who I was. I almost secretly hoped I didn't get into medical school. had this whole plan to work with people with disabilities in Italy and live in a home and do all these things. so I also, you know, having overcome an eating disorder in my sort of late high school, early college, that was really when I started to understand for myself, okay, this is who I am up until this point. These are all the tools that I'm bringing in to facilitate my own healing so that I can be a person who can have a conversation, not think about food and body and all these things, how to take back my power. So I think it was really kind of an interest in it, but then also a direct experience of my own healing. think that was really my first really getting through the eating disorder and trying to understand the why and how to live a rich life. Beyond that, that really propelled me to this calling. I even went to medical school actually to cure the world of eating disorders, which is funny because my life did take a different path that we do, you know, we help people with eating disorders and reproductive endocrinology all the time. But I think that that was sort of a part of me. But then just like so many of us, like we kind of split off parts of ourselves, I think, to survive medical school. It was like, okay, you what do have to learn and memorize? And how do I get into a residency that I want to go to? And all those different questions. And so I was very laser focused on the science and the surgery and the research I needed to do to match into a competitive specialty. like that achievement sort of took most of my... Energy and then as I was doing that I also became a parent myself and so again that takes like a huge chunk of energy And and you know, we can we can generate energy But at the end of the day there really is so much space and so as I started to see patients as an attending, right? I went to med school for four years residency for four years fellowship for three years And then I emerged in my mid 30s to take care of patients I started to realize that the tools that I had been taught at these really top-level programs Columbia Michigan you know, like really top of the line training programs, they were not helping my patients to get what they needed. And in these exam rooms, I was feeling a disconnect with my patients that we were not connecting. I was explaining the science. explaining the options, trying to help them make choices. And there was so much anxiety and overwhelm and fear that I was not breaking through those layers. Right. And around the same time, was doing continue to my own inner work. You know, I started to have a little more bandwidth after training to focus on my growth and my own healing, you know, layers of evolution. And at some point I started to connect the dots. You know, I wonder if some of the things I'm learning in my coaching and my own personal healing might help my patients. in the office to release their inhibitions, to start trusting the process, to start trusting me as the doctor, to start to hear what I'm saying. Again, this is not no judgment whatsoever, but how can we have this fruitful relationship where we're connecting and the patients are getting their power back to make these empowered choices? And I realized that that was truly through not just explaining the science, but creating a safe container, helping people get back into their bodies. feel their feelings, calm the nervous system. And when that started to happen, they were like calling me left and right like, hey, Dr. Bo, guess what? I guess I don't need you anymore. I'm pregnant. like things started to happen that were unexplainable based on the length of infertility and all these other things. And so that's when I started to say, okay, this is not just about like... clinical medicine and you you have this diagnosis and these are your treatments and this is what we do. But this is about healing the whole person, healing the traumas, healing the limiting beliefs, healing that whole aspect that's keeping people stuck to be able to help them to break through to achieve their highest good, whatever that is.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: That's really powerful, what you named. There's a few things you named there that I think are important to just touch on. One is when a human being is overwhelmed with fear, overwhelmed, those kinds of emotions you were naming with the patients you were seeing. And I'm saying a human because it's not just in the doctor-patient relationship, but it's in any relationship. When you are trying to connect with somebody that is overwhelmed with fear, You cannot meet them necessarily with data or, you know, this is, there's a bunch of studies in medicine that show oncologists think that they connect so much with their patients, but their patients are fearing the cancer treatments and all these things. Are they even going to live? And they're trying to meet them with data and you know, that kind of analytical information. But when somebody is coming to you with emotion, you need to meet them with emotion and that is human connection. And so one of the things that I'm hearing you say is your patients were showing up this way and you knew what they needed was to be held, to be supported, to feel safe is what you said, to open up that very special container. And I just want to say that again, because I don't think we do that enough. And I know people all over the world are always looking for a clinician they can trust, they can feel safe with, that is compassionate, that they can connect with. And I know that that is one of your secret sauces because you're an incredible human being and I know you personally. And I just, there's no doubt that your patients are getting the results that they're getting because if they feel safe with you, then they can release and they can let go and get back in their bodies. And in fact, one of the research studies that I named, that one that I mentioned that was published at Harvard, what she was actually doing was mind-body connection, teaching her clients or the patients to relax. how to meditate, how to get back into their body, doing things like yoga. And this is in 1987 when things like would have been seen as total bananas. Like there's no science behind this, there's no data behind this. There wasn't even yet like MindBody, you the MBSI program, MindBody, the MindBody Connection. And this is, so this is all very novel and new. And this is the stuff that you're bringing in just intuitively you knew that this was what your patients needed. And so of course it's working.

Dr. Erica Bove: Yeah, and I'll mention she's a good friend of mine, Dr. Ali Dhoomar, and we talk all the time. And I'm so grateful to know her. And the science continues to advance. There is now a wearable device that looks at all these different biomarkers and puts out a report of the physiological optimal fertility zone. And so interesting to me that the results, like the data they're about to publish from this group track so well with what I see in my coaching practice, like the onset of effect, which is about six weeks in once people start to really integrate the concepts and to feel safe. The pregnancy rates, you know, they're over 80%. I'm at 90 % right now with my coaching clients. Like these are people who are told that they had no chance, but, I'm tracking this with my own clients who use the device as well. You can truly see the CNS function, the heart rate variability, all these things that we can now name physiologically get better with these tools. And you know, Dr. Ali Domaar is part of that research as well. And so it's fascinating that even way back then there was a sense of, these are the things that people need. I think even now we're drilling down into the actual data from the body to help really tailor the treatments and the recommendations to individuals to what their bodies actually need.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: Yeah, that's fascinating.

Dr. Erica Bove: Yeah.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: the things that you have been doing intuitively, the fact that they're being studied and that research is now being published on it, I think is always important because what it'll do is for folks that this doesn't feel intuitive to them, they'll start understanding, there's a different way that's possible. And so hopefully more and more doctors start to incorporate this to help their patients have better results.

Dr. Erica Bove: Yes, the one caution I would say is it is largely AI generated, which is, we live in this era of technology, and so I think we have to be stewards of this technology. So I personally think that, you know, AI is not going to replace human connection. I think we could all agree. And so the question from my perspective is in twenty twenty six as of the time this recording, how do we take all that intuition and keep it and welcome in the technology that's going to help us? I don't think it's either or I think we can leverage it. But I think we have to be very responsible. and to remember that we really do still all need human connection, human community, and then accessing those deeper resources like our ancestral wisdom.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: AI is a tool and we should access

Dr. Erica Bove: Yep.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: it as a tool. But in my experience, what I have seen as the more and more AI that in the world, the more and more people are thriving or like are wanting connection. There's this deep desire for authenticity that has I've just at least perceived. It's been deeper and deeper and more and more. The more AI has gotten out there. AI is important, it's a great tool and we should learn how to access it and use it and remember that there is nothing that will ever substitute human connection. let's,

Dr. Erica Bove: Exactly.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: let me just ask you, as you have been noticing, because you've now treated many patients and when you look at the cycles of those who conceive, so, because listen, if you want to become, you and I have talked about this before, if your deepest desire is to become a parent, if that is your deepest desire, And it's coming from a pure place where, you know, your why behind that is pure and it's loving and it's beautiful. It's coming from a place of deep unconditional love as opposed to like, I need to prove myself and whatever, all those types of things. Then you will become a parent. And it might not be in the way that you think, which is the traditional way of conceiving, right? Like having a pregnancy, but you will become a parent. But for those patients of yours that you have worked with that have conceived, whether through treatment or spontaneously, are there any patterns that you've noticed that essentially doesn't really have to do with their labs, but other ways, any other patterns you've noticed for them that have supported them in conceiving?

Dr. Erica Bove: Yeah, absolutely. I will say the biggest thing that comes to mind is the energy that people embody and It's interesting, like I will tell you, this is one of those things that does not make sense scientifically, at least I can't sort of give you an equation, but I will tell you in the OR when I'm doing an embryo transfer if it's going to work or not, which is wild because the embryo doesn't even implant for one to two days. And then the pregnancy test is like nine days from the time of the transfer. So it's it's so crazy to me that I can sense the energy in the room and to know whether that's going to take, it's like 95 % accurate because there is a certain energy that is a receptor. And one sort of maxim that we say is conceiving as receiving. I will tell you, I can also see this on through the zoom calls of my coaching clients. When they start to get into the mode of, you know, reducing the hypervigilance, starting to really, really let go and surrender and trust the process. That is when I know that their next transfer is going to work. is, it's amazing to me. And, it's, it's so fascinating because we have this energy, body right and it obviously influences our physiology but there is this energy of openness this energy of connection this energy of welcoming in that little soul who's meant to be ours that is is so important to be able I call it the sweet spot really when I do my coaching but it's it's an energetic shift and I will say you know the reason my company is called love and science is because the science has to be sound for us to be able to do that right I think a lot of my clients are especially female physicians who are second guessing and going down the PubMed rabbit hole and be like, my doctor fix something, miss something? And so I think part of that safety is to say the science is sound. These are the reasons this treatment plan makes sense. These are my reasons for authentic hope for you, which is hope grounded in science, right? Like, so the science has to be sound. And then once the science is sound, and then people can really trust the process, trust the doctor, trust the fact that there's a possibility that this is the one that's meant to be theirs, that is when the physiology works the best and that's when I see people getting pregnant at the highest rates.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: That is incredibly profound. And I love that you're able to sense that energy. Again, this is, I think, a big sort of gift of your healing journey as a healer and the fact that you are intuitively wide open, that you can sense the energy in the room. But of course, the physiology behind it makes a lot of sense because if you are in a receptive mode, I love that maxim that you named, when you are in a receptive mode, that means you're... parasympathetic, your relaxation response of your body, that that part of your system is turned on. And that creates the sense of calm and safety, not just in your mind, but in all of your organs, multi-organ safety. And it operates largely through what we know, the vagus nerve, which runs through the brainstem, down our entire body, but also through the female reproductive organs, including the ovaries. This is something I've thought about a lot because, again, you know, my story where I was trying to get pregnant and I couldn't, and I kept having miscarriages. until I was finally, and we met with fertility doctors, and I was like, I don't think I want to put my body through all that. I don't know if I want to go through that. And we had already had, we were so blessed that we had already had one child. And

Dr. Erica Bove: Mm.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: it wasn't until I surrendered, it wasn't until I released and I said, you know what, let's, whatever happens happens. And then of course, you know, I didn't have a period after that because then I got pregnant, but. When your nervous system, you mentioned hypervigilance, that's when our nervous system is in this chronic sympathetic state, fight, flight, know, that kind of, that kind of body. What happens there is our body is, we are getting this message over and over again, telling us that it's not safe to reproduce. So of course that makes sense. So I've, of course, everything you're naming makes total sense. The fact that you can sense that energy in the room when someone just finally lets go and then they can get pregnant, that's powerful. And of course it's backed by science. It's really beautiful.

Dr. Erica Bove: Yeah.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: So I'm wondering if we can shift a little bit because one of the other things you've told me is, you come from three generations of physicians, you're the third generation. Your grandfather was an OBGYN, your father was a surgeon or urologist.

Dr. Erica Bove: Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: And you have had tough cases before where you have named, you're in the operating room and you're asking for support. tell us, when was the first time you experienced something like that?

Dr. Erica Bove: gosh, I remember distinctly being at the private practice that I worked at and having a hard time doing an embryo transfer. some cervixes are just really tricky to get through. Sometimes they're S-shaped or sometimes there's sort of crips. And I remember just saying, like, pop a bovine, I your help here. He's my grandfather. I'm actually the first grandchild who is not who I'm the first grandchild who is born after he died, which means I was the first grandchild who was not delivered by him specifically. And, you know, there's some traditions who believe that the first child born after a loved one dies, like inherits their spirit or there's some, you know, ancestral connection there where that person guides them through their life. And I will say that has always been the case for me with my papa Bov. You know, I just I dreamt about him when I was a baby, like a child. never met him. His stories are alive and well. And I do feel his spirit with me every day, which is beautiful. Probably also reason why I people say, why did you do OBGYN when you were thinking about psychiatry? And like, well, I'm sure my papa had something to do with that. Right. So I remember being in the OR and just saying, Papa Bov, I need your help here. And then all of a sudden, I felt his presence and like, you know, in my in my body through my hands, and I'm a surgeon, so I use my hands. And like, I navigated the cervix and all of a sudden the embryo like went right in. It was like so crazy. And I was like, okay, I just struggled for like a half an hour to get this embryo and all I had to do was ask for Papa Bov to help. And like, you could be a skeptic and you could say, well, it's just because blah, blah, blah, you know, whatever I tend to say no, I felt his presence. I know what I felt. I know how hard that was. All of a sudden I asked for his help and voila, the embryo went in the right spot. And like, lo and behold, that woman got pregnant. So I do think that we can be aided by forces beyond ourselves. And we were talking about this before, Dr. Vanessa, like the veil between like life and death, especially in these moments, like in the delivery room, for instance, in the embryo transfer room, you can feel, you can feel other spirits. I mean, if you're in tune like I am, I will feel my grandfather with me. I will feel the loved one of, you my patients. whose loved ones have just passed. And I think we have to welcome that in because why not, right? It can only help.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: That's so powerful. You you mentioned the veil and I just want to talk a little bit more about what this is in reference to. You know, the veil is this concept, this boundary between the physical and the non-physical worlds, sort of the ordinary kind of consciousness, what we see, feel, touch and expanded consciousness. And there are, this comes from, again, this is not new age, this comes from generations way before us. In fact, one of the most ancient civilizations that practiced this thinning of the veil was the Celtic tradition. And in Celtic tradition, specifically around something called the Samhain, which is the festival that eventually kind of influenced what we now practice, which is Halloween, Celts believed that during that time, the boundary between the physical world and the spiritual world became thinner, the boundary did, which is why we were able to access and communicate with ancestors and spirits during that time. And it wasn't viewed as supernatural the way we sort of view it in the modern world. It was just kind of natural rhythm of life. And it's not just the Celts. Many indigenous traditions around the world hold that during specific times, illness, grief, birth, like what Dr. Eric Above is mentioning, death, ceremony, fasting, solitude, altered states of consciousness. During those times, the veil's thin. And Buddhism talks about this a lot, which is why you can get into these deep states of meditation and access higher consciousness. Even mystical Christianity, you know, the...

Dr. Erica Bove: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: top three religions, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, even that those top three religions, the mystical parts of those religions talk about concepts like communing with saints or having visions or divine revelations or these encounters during prayer, sensing the presence of loved ones after they die. All of those types of things are this concept of us communing with something bigger than us, i.e. the veil thinning, kind of like what she named. And so I didn't want push past that or rush over that. I really want to take some time there because many of you listening have had experiences like that, that we kind of just put in a little closet or put away or really don't share it with people because it can sound a little wild. But I want to just validate you and your experience if you're having those types of experiences, because there's something really mystical and powerful and beautiful about you witnessing those experiences for yourself, having that your own experience and really believing yourself. believing the experience that you're having. So the fact that Erica is saying, I called on my grandfather and then this happened and people can be skeptical, but I know what I experienced. And so I just want to also, don't, not that Erica needs validating because she's fully in belief, but validate the fact that that is possible for everyone. You can call on support and support can be there for you if you're open to it and you're open to believing what you experience.

Dr. Erica Bove: That's right. Can I share a story that I think really brings this home? A story that my patient gave me permission to share. Okay, so I had this beautiful, beautiful patient who wanted nothing more than to be a mother. And she and her husband got married, they started trying, it wasn't happening. She was diagnosed with endometriosis. And around that time as well, her father was diagnosed with terminal illness. And she was seeing me as a patient, we decided to do IVF. IVF wasn't working, transfer after transfer. Her father was getting sicker and sicker. And I remember finally, father passed and we honored his death and we geared up to do another transfer and I said to her, was like, I think this is the one, I think this is the one. I could see her energy soften, I could just sense that she was ready. And I think, I'll just pause to say, I think so much of the time there's this pressure. especially with a sick parent to be like, have to do this before my, you loved one passes because I'm, I'm the one who has to give them a grandchild and I want them to live to see it. And there was like all this sort of, I think, attachment really to like having all three generations in this realm at the same time. So will just say that. And I think maybe that was part of it as well, because I sensed this pressure of like, just have to do this for him before he passes. So her father passes. We grew up doing the next transfer. gosh, you get chills thinking about it. I was in the transfer room doing her transfer. And I said, OK, we're going to welcome his spirit in right now. I asked for Papa's spirit. I asked for his spirit. We could all feel him in the room, like every single person, medical assistant, nurse, her, her husband, myself. We could all feel his presence in the room. So we do the transfer. It takes. I mean she's had a zillion transfers at this point and she goes to the pregnancy is actually like a relatively uncomplicated pregnancy. This little boy, her child, was delivered on her father's birthday.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: I love just those types of stories where people are like, it's a coincidence. Or maybe it's a coincidence. Or if you're open to something bigger, what if that was just the reassurance she needed to show that her father's spirit was in so much deep support that as like as proof, he's like, here you go. I'm not, it's not only going to be that you call on me for help, but I'm also going to be, I'm also going to help you deliver the baby on my birthday for more proof. That's so powerful.

Dr. Erica Bove: Yeah, I know. It's like you just don't even have any words. Like I... I'm humbled and in awe. this is one story of so, so, so many at this point. And I can think of another client. No, she wasn't a client. Excuse me. She was a patient, a patient of mine who had a significant history of trauma and cycle after cycle after cycle was not working. And I could just feel like I'm a massive empath, right? I could just feel the negative energy. And I remember just like in my soul, I said, okay, like the universe is calling me to have a pretty direct conversation. with her, I said to her, you know, I love you dearly. I believe that this hypervigilance is not serving you and I need at least a part of you to trust this process, like just a crack in the system. Like what can we do so that this next transfer is successful? And then we're talking like years long of a journey. Everyone's like, why is she back? We just wanted to graduate. And but I knew in my in my heart and soul that we needed to break through that wall. And so I remember the conversation. I remember she said, I trust my body. I trust my body to do this. And said, okay, that's that's all we need. Like we need to do this. So of course, as things go, I happened to be the attending on when her embryo transfer was, it was a weekend and I showed up and I was in the room and I remember like feeling this like negative force field, right? And I said to her, was like, remember what we talked about? Like, like, We can do this. We can do this. The nurse felt it. I felt it. I felt like I was in this epic battle. I know it sounds dramatic, but I remember then feeling that opening in that force field, doing the embryo transfer, and then this receding of that energy. Again, like I told you, I can tell in the room if it's going to work. was like, this is going to work. I just know it's going to work. And lo and behold, nine days later, she had a positive pregnancy test. She's now very pregnant right now is the time of this recording. And I think that's just another example of like that hypervigilance, that trauma, all the walls that we build up. We need to feel safe. Even just a part of us needs to allow, right? Allow the love and allow that receiving. And now she's creating her dream life. But but we had work through that because the energy was too much and the energy was preventing that from happening.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: Yeah, that's really powerful to share. There's this concept of, you know, the whole concept of surrender, which we've sort of named here, when patients can finally trust, it requires safety. Surrender just means being open and trusting, and it requires a sense of safety. But whenever we say trust, like, what are you, what are you asking to trust? Like, trust in what? And a huge part of that trust has to be in yourself, like self and you know we say trust God, trust divine, trust the universe, whatever you call your higher power and that is in relation to you so you have to trust yourself. So I love how you said I just need a part of you to believe because belief is trust and in fact in many eastern traditions, eastern healing traditions, when they use this we call it energy because we don't have other words for it but when we use energy to heal what is actually happening when you talk to these folks that have, you know, this is people that have inherited the practice of energy healing that has been in their lineage for centuries and centuries. What they say is, have a deep belief and then the energy is just coming through me and I'm just a vessel of the energy. And it's like you, Erica, have, this is why I think you have such a high success with your clients because you have such a deep belief in what you are capable of. And the energy is coming through you into your patients, but your patients have to believe. so whenever

Dr. Erica Bove: contract.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: you can sense the belief, you sense the softening, then there's like magic. That's when magic happens. I call it magic, that's when

Dr. Erica Bove: Exactly. It is magic.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: it can happen, right? That's when they're open. I love it. I love it. It is definitely magic. So let's talk a little bit about, you know, the... people that are listening to this podcast, most of my audience, incredibly smart, successful folks, and many men and women listening to this podcast, some of them are trying to conceive and some of them maybe have said, okay, maybe this wasn't my time. Maybe they're in their 50s and they're, so I'm curious for you, if you had a message for those that maybe are still trying to conceive, what would be the message you have for them?

Dr. Erica Bove: Hmm. So I would say if you have the desire in your heart to become a parent, then that is your destiny, right? Like every single person who desires to become a parent will become a parent. There are pathways, there are ways. It may not always happen with what I call the strong plan A, right? Like my eggs, this sperm, in this time, in my body, like sometimes we need to call in other supports. Some people decide to pursue adoption if they have such a desire in their heart, but there is a soul who's meant to be yours. The important thing is connecting with the right team. who can help you to figure out what way that is going to be. And so I always recommend meeting with a reproductive endocrinologist that you trust. The general guideline is if you're under the age of 35 and you've been trying for 12 months, see a specialist. If you're 35 or older and have been trying for six months to see a specialist, there are some caveats. Like if you have a long history of abdominal surgeries or infections or things like that, maybe chemotherapy is something that would make it more likely that you would need to see somebody. but those are the general guidelines and they can start to give you some data about, know, again, the problem is we're fertility specialists without true fertility tests. Like I can sort of tell you these are your numbers, this is what the landscape looks like, but the only way to know if you're fertile is if somebody actually conceives and stays pregnant and delivers a baby. And so I think getting sort of a scientific landscape is really important. And then also tuning into your intuition to understand what your deepest why is. Like, why do you have this desire? How do you envision your fullest life? You know, what could this look like? What does being a mother or a father look like to you? And starting to ask yourself those questions because I think that's when that deeper wisdom can really come up. For some people it's like, you know what? I thought that I wanted to be a parent, but I think it's more these societal expectations and I can find ways to be a staple person in my niece's life or my students' lives or be a coach or whatever else, but I don't feel like I have that deep desire myself. And I think owning that and, and embracing that and saying, okay, I've tuned into my inner wisdom and this is what I want for my life. I think that's really powerful. There's other people, even if they're in their fifties, who say, you know what, I thought about it. Like I met my partner late or I want to do this on my own or everyone has a story. Right. And when you tune into your intuition, if that is your deepest desire, there is a way to make that happen. Again, sometimes we need to call in outside resources, but working with a specialist to figure out what, you know, options exist and then tuning into the intuition. what makes sense for me given my values and my priorities and my desired family, that's, and I can help too as a coach to guide those conversations, that's really when the magic happens in terms of people living their dream lives and becoming parents or building their families.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: That's beautiful. And Dr. Erika Bov mentions that she's a coach, but she's a fertility specialist. She's trained in OB-GYN medicine. She's a surgeon and she helps integrate both the spiritual, the ancestral, all of the sorts of magic, all the missing pieces. I sort of see it as the energetic body that you're that you are treating as well as the physical body and integrating those two things. And I think that's such a gift. We are going to link all of Dr. Bove's information in the show notes, but Erica, there's anything you want to share with folks, or if you think if there was something Papa Bove, your grandfather, could speak directly to your patients, is there a message he'd want everyone to know?

Dr. Erica Bove: Ugh. Gosh, I he used to sing. I talk about safety. He used to sing during deliveries and I just call that energy in just to think about having your obstetrician sing to you while you're delivering a baby. I just love that so much. I think it's more his smile and his calm demeanor and just the way that he was able to connect with people. think that that is what I would communicate here in this space. I think we all deserve human connection. I think we all deserve a safe space to land and we all deserve something who's in our corner and that can exist in so many different formats. Maybe it's a spouse, maybe it's a parent, maybe it's a friend, maybe it's a coach, maybe it's your fertility doctor. But I think that leaning into that safety of human connection, that love, that beautiful creative space, tapping into our deepest intuition, make sure the science is sound of course, but I think what is missing in so many of my clients initially is that love, is that connection, is that safety and know that is your birthright, that is yours. And if you need help, I will help to guide you to the right places for that. But remember that healing happens in community, healing happens in that safe space, and the love is the divine. That's what we all crave. And so remember to invite that in on your journey, and you are never, ever, ever alone.

Dr. Vanessa Calderón: That is so beautiful. Thank you so much, Dr. Bov. Thank you for joining us today. And for everyone else, we'll see you all next week. Adios.

Dr. Erica Bove: Adios.